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	<title>Comments on: On IE8 version targeting</title>
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	<link>http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/</link>
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		<title>By: Some links for light reading (26/2/08) &#124; Max Design</title>
		<link>http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/comment-page-1/#comment-656315</link>
		<dc:creator>Some links for light reading (26/2/08) &#124; Max Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 12:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/#comment-656315</guid>
		<description>[...] On IE8 version targeting [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On IE8 version targeting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: thacker</title>
		<link>http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/comment-page-1/#comment-423873</link>
		<dc:creator>thacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/#comment-423873</guid>
		<description>A lot of angst and too much to do about little.  Microsoft wasn&#039;t about to tie the IE7 version engine to  future versions beyond IE8. That has even become moot with Microsoft&#039;s announcement, today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of angst and too much to do about little.  Microsoft wasn&#8217;t about to tie the IE7 version engine to  future versions beyond IE8. That has even become moot with Microsoft&#8217;s announcement, today.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/comment-page-1/#comment-415479</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/#comment-415479</guid>
		<description>@Olly: This is true, but the solution is broadly the same (though in many ways _easier_ because we&#039;re talking about tweaking software purely within the Windows ecosystem, which Microsoft controls). Give the new IE control a new GUID and keep the old one around. Install the old one by default as part of the setup process if you must. Old apps continue to use the old control with no changes to anything required.

It&#039;s worth bearing in mind, though, that we&#039;re talking about “sites (or web apps, or intranets, or whatever) which both (a) trigger IE 7 standards-mode, (b) aren&#039;t actually standards-compliant, and (c) didn&#039;t use conditional comments so will break for IE 8. The proportion of actual real websites that falls into this category rapidly approaches zero, not least because Microsoft went out of their way to tell people exactly—in no uncertain terms—how to fix their sites when IE 7 “broke” them, and  everything I&#039;ve seen suggests that compliance with that is widespread.

In other words, the IE 8 “problem”, barring a tiny handful of sites which don&#039;t come anything close to the “1% of the web” Microsoft is scared of breaking, actually only really affects sites accessed from a tightly-controlled environment—either a corporate scenario where IT departments have the final say on what, how and when things get installed, or restricted to specific Windows applications. In both cases, having the IE 7 engine kicking around separately from IE 8 would suffice, without any need for defaults to change or anything like that.

Those who require that kind of closed ecosystem can keep it; meanwhile, the rest of us—those of us who have spent countless days working around IE&#039;s shortfalls—can carry on building standards-compliant sites with one less thing to worry about, and all those quirks mode sites out there will continue unhindered anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Olly: This is true, but the solution is broadly the same (though in many ways _easier_ because we&#8217;re talking about tweaking software purely within the Windows ecosystem, which Microsoft controls). Give the new IE control a new GUID and keep the old one around. Install the old one by default as part of the setup process if you must. Old apps continue to use the old control with no changes to anything required.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth bearing in mind, though, that we&#8217;re talking about “sites (or web apps, or intranets, or whatever) which both (a) trigger IE 7 standards-mode, (b) aren&#8217;t actually standards-compliant, and (c) didn&#8217;t use conditional comments so will break for IE 8. The proportion of actual real websites that falls into this category rapidly approaches zero, not least because Microsoft went out of their way to tell people exactly—in no uncertain terms—how to fix their sites when IE 7 “broke” them, and  everything I&#8217;ve seen suggests that compliance with that is widespread.</p>
<p>In other words, the IE 8 “problem”, barring a tiny handful of sites which don&#8217;t come anything close to the “1% of the web” Microsoft is scared of breaking, actually only really affects sites accessed from a tightly-controlled environment—either a corporate scenario where IT departments have the final say on what, how and when things get installed, or restricted to specific Windows applications. In both cases, having the IE 7 engine kicking around separately from IE 8 would suffice, without any need for defaults to change or anything like that.</p>
<p>Those who require that kind of closed ecosystem can keep it; meanwhile, the rest of us—those of us who have spent countless days working around IE&#8217;s shortfalls—can carry on building standards-compliant sites with one less thing to worry about, and all those quirks mode sites out there will continue unhindered anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Olly</title>
		<link>http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/comment-page-1/#comment-415364</link>
		<dc:creator>Olly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/#comment-415364</guid>
		<description>@Mo &quot;The sites Microsoft are afraid of breaking are primarily corporate intranets and the like&quot;

It&#039;s not just &quot;breaking the corporate intranets&quot; they&#039;re worried about. There&#039;s a metric bucket-load of software out there that embeds the IE browser control and then fires it&#039;s own hard-coded shonky HTML in there. What happens when the underlying rendering engine changes? Yep, that&#039;s right, the application breaks. It&#039;s a difficult one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mo &#8220;The sites Microsoft are afraid of breaking are primarily corporate intranets and the like&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just &#8220;breaking the corporate intranets&#8221; they&#8217;re worried about. There&#8217;s a metric bucket-load of software out there that embeds the IE browser control and then fires it&#8217;s own hard-coded shonky HTML in there. What happens when the underlying rendering engine changes? Yep, that&#8217;s right, the application breaks. It&#8217;s a difficult one.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/comment-page-1/#comment-415036</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/#comment-415036</guid>
		<description>@JackP: The sites Microsoft are afraid of breaking are primarily corporate intranets and the like, as far as I&#039;m aware. The correct solution in this situation is to do an officially-sanctioned release of something like Tredosoft&#039;s “MultipleIEs” and allow IE 7 to be run standalone alongside IEx. This can be rolled out by systems administrators as required, _and the rest of the world—those of us living on the *public* Internet—doesn&#039;t have to suffer_.

Of course, to do so would be to admit that IE isn&#039;t nearly so much of a critical embedded OS component as was stated in anti-trust trials, even though we all know that to be bunkum—but to admit it officially would be tantamount to perjury.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JackP: The sites Microsoft are afraid of breaking are primarily corporate intranets and the like, as far as I&#8217;m aware. The correct solution in this situation is to do an officially-sanctioned release of something like Tredosoft&#8217;s “MultipleIEs” and allow IE 7 to be run standalone alongside IEx. This can be rolled out by systems administrators as required, _and the rest of the world—those of us living on the *public* Internet—doesn&#8217;t have to suffer_.</p>
<p>Of course, to do so would be to admit that IE isn&#8217;t nearly so much of a critical embedded OS component as was stated in anti-trust trials, even though we all know that to be bunkum—but to admit it officially would be tantamount to perjury.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/comment-page-1/#comment-415013</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2008/on-ie8-version-targeting/#comment-415013</guid>
		<description>Jack - I thought of the IE-edge case, too. But I&#039;ve been increasingly thinking that we don&#039;t have enough the right language or semantics now for &quot;Web 2.0&quot;, and HTML5 is the only show in town, so I&#039;m exploring that. I have accessibility issues with it, but I have a chance of affecting the outcome by engaging with the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack &#8211; I thought of the IE-edge case, too. But I&#8217;ve been increasingly thinking that we don&#8217;t have enough the right language or semantics now for &#8220;Web 2.0&#8243;, and HTML5 is the only show in town, so I&#8217;m exploring that. I have accessibility issues with it, but I have a chance of affecting the outcome by engaging with the process.</p>
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